Podcast Episode 41: Recovering From Divorce with Karen McMahon

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Episode Summary

In this episode of The Communicate & Connect Podcast, host Elizabeth Polinsky welcomes divorce coach Karen McMahon to discuss the journey of recovering from divorce. Karen shares her personal experience of navigating a high conflict divorce, emphasizing the importance of self-reflection and taking responsibility for one's actions in a relationship.

The conversation delves into how our family of origin influences our relationship dynamics, including cheating or dealing with high conflict personalities. Karen recommends the book "Getting the Love You Want" by Harville Hendrix and Helen Hunt, which explores how subconscious familiarity of both pleasing and displeasing behaviors that attract us to our soulmates.

With sensitivity towards the negative aspects of unhealthy marriages, Karen reminds listeners of the importance of grace, acceptance, and holding space for healing and refinement in a healthy marriage. She believes that challenges and conflicts in relationships can help individuals grow and develop.

As a parent, Karen understands the impact of divorce on children. She emphasizes the need for a support system and highlights the importance of communication and safety with children during this difficult time. Karen advises parents to avoid sharing the problems with the other parent with their children and to become a safe person for them to come to.

Drawing from her own experience as a parent, Karen shares how she has supported her children in their relationships and learnings. She encourages parents to model healthy relationships and discusses the significance of unconditional love and affection in front of children.

The episode also explores the process of recovery from divorce trauma. Karen applies her expertise as a divorce coach to discuss the differences between counseling and coaching in addressing trauma. She promotes personal growth and transformation, helping individuals shift from conflict energy and victimhood to taking responsibility, finding forgiveness, and experiencing peace and joy.

Karen's personal story, combined with her professional knowledge, provides listeners with valuable insights and support in navigating through the challenges of divorce. Join Elizabeth and Karen as they dive deep into the process of recovering from divorce and creating healthier and happier futures.

​To listen to the full episode, tune in to The Communicate & Connect Podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review!

About Karen McMahon

Karen McMahon's story began in 2002 when she married late in life, had two young children, and found herself in a chaotic situation. Unaware of high conflict personalities and her role in the situation, Karen struggled for three and a half years before finally filing for divorce. Her divorce fell into the high conflict category, causing her emotional distress and leading to the loss of her clients. With her ex still living with them, Karen faced financial hardships and had to rely on friends for basic necessities. The situation escalated to involve the police, CPS, and the court. Despite the turmoil, Karen found solace in a twelve-step program and therapy, which taught her to focus on her own actions and accountability. As she emerged from the difficult experience, Karen realized that her divorce had been both a living hell and the best thing that ever happened to her. Grateful for the personal growth she underwent, she became determined to help others navigate the challenges of divorce. In 2010, Karen left her job in commercial printing and became a divorce coach, specializing in supporting individuals during this painful transition. Having experienced divorce as a child and as an adult with children, Karen felt called to make a difference in the lives of those going through similar experiences. It has been a rewarding journey for her to provide guidance and support to others in such a difficult time.

How to work with Karen McMahon:

Check out her podcast: Journey Beyond Divorce. Journey Beyond Divorce is also the website, and on the homepage of her website, you can get a free Rapid Relief Call. She's got a new program, Get Off the Fence and Leave your Difficult Marriage. She also has another accelerated divorce program that talks about some of the twelve steps.

Episode Transcript

​Elizabeth Polinsky [00:00:02]:

This podcast is sponsored by my counseling practice, Elizabeth Polinsky Counseling, where I offer weekly marriage counseling, weekend long, marriage intensives, and therapist training in emotionally focused couple therapy. To learn more about my marriage counseling services, visit www.elizabethpalinskycounseling.com you welcome back to the Communicate and Connect podcast. This is Episode 41, recovering from Divorce with Karen McMahon. I'm really excited that we have Karen here. She is a divorce and relationship coach. And as much as I would love for couples to be able to stay together, it's just not the reality. And so I'm glad we're going to talk about divorce, how to divorce well, and how to recover from divorce in this episode. So Karen, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do as a divorce and relationship coach.

Karen McMahon [00:01:15]:

Great. Thank you. And Liz, thanks so much for inviting me on. I'm excited to be speaking with you and your listeners. Yet my story started way back in 2002. I married late, I was in my mid thirty s, I had two children in diapers still, and things had just really unraveled. And I didn't know anything about high conflict personalities or my part in all what was going on. I just knew that things had gone sideways very quickly and it took me three and a half years from the time I finally got off the fence, which took forever, and decided to file until I was divorced. And so mine would fall into the high conflict divorce category. I was in sales. It was such an emotional, hot mess. I lost almost all my clients. I had friends bringing food to the back door because my ex, who was still living with us, wouldn't give me money to buy food. The police got involved, CPS got know, the court got involved. So I always describe my divorce as a living hell and the best thing that ever happened to me. And the reason for that is by the time I emerged and because early on I found a twelve step program which talks about keeping your side of the street clean and keeping the focus on yourself, which was between that and my therapist, just a lifesaver to just focus on. What did I bring to the table and what part of this is mine? Because his part seemed so clear and obvious and blaring to me, as with so many of us going through divorce. So I emerged a better version of myself. And I remember saying to my best friend, while the last three and a half years was hellacious, if I had to do it all over again to be the person I am today versus the person I was entering it, I would do it on a dime. And I felt so strongly about that. And I think that's what catapulted me into leaving commercial printing, which was a dying industry, and saying, what do I want to do? And when I found coaching, well, what kind of a coach do I want to be? It was, like, crystal clear. Divorce is one of the most difficult and devastating transitions of all the transitions we go through. I was a child of divorce. I was an adult with two kids going through a divorce. And so I decided that was my calling, and that was in 2010. And it has been such a blessing to support so many through such a difficult transition.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:04:01]:

Yeah. I'm really glad that you do this. Well, I think this is probably in the realm of coaches and individual therapists. As a marriage counselor, I often see people who are trying to give it their last shot before divorce. But once there is a decision to go through divorce, then I have to refer them out because I can only work with the couple together. And so I have often felt like, this is such a painful time. How will people get support to go through it? So I'm glad to hear that this is something that you do. I don't think a ton of people sort of specialize in divorce recovery. Something that stood out while you were talking was sort of this transformation that you went through. It was a personal growth experience, and it reminds me a lot of PTSD. So before I was a marriage counselor, I was a PTSD therapist. And in the research, a lot of people talk about this post traumatic growth that happens after I go through something really traumatic. I have the potential there's a chance there that I can have this meaningful growth experience coming out the other side of that. And that's how that sounds to me and how you described it.

Karen McMahon [00:05:25]:

And that's actually the philosophy and the mission of journey beyond divorce is divorce is difficult and painful, and it's also the perfect opportunity to reinvent yourself. My personal opinion is the reason second and third marriages have a higher divorce rate than first marriages is because so many people are of the mindset that they are divorcing the problem when they, in fact, are 50% of the problem. And when we divorce, the problem do nothing about our own behavior. We go out and we meet the same man or woman in a different body, and we rinse and repeat, and about seven years in, we go, why is this happening to me again?

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:06:14]:

Yes. Oh, gosh, I'm so glad you're saying that. I'm so glad you're saying that. It's always that it takes two to tango, but whenever we're in that really painful spot, it's so easy to just look at the other person.

Karen McMahon [00:06:29]:

Yeah. And it makes sense. It makes sense that the behavior of your spouse has been triggering and upsetting and disappointing and aggravating you for so long, that we're all just crystal clear on his or her faults. And yet it's that looking in the mirror and saying, what did I bring to the table? And you're a therapist. I don't spend a lot of time in the past as a coach, but I'll always ask, can you just tell me the story of your family of origin? And for those who are facing a spouse who cheated, often their mom or dad cheated. For those who were married to a high conflict personality, often their mom or dad or sibling had a high conflict personality. And so I like to say we don't lick it off the we. And actually, I love Harville Hendrix and Helen Hunt's book getting the Love You Want because they talk about how we actually are attracted to our soulmate. That connection is often because of this subconscious, this unconscious familiarity with behaviors, not necessarily just the good behaviors, the displeasing behaviors. And in a healthy marriage, and you could speak to this, you have grace and acceptance, and you hold space for the other person to heal and refine. But in unhealthy marriages, that negativity comes in, and there's the attacking and the breaking down, but the initial attraction, it's there for a reason. And ultimately, after the chemistry and everything settles down a little bit, those rubs are there to grow us.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:08:21]:

Yes, I'm totally on board with what you're saying, both from a clinical standpoint, but also from my own personal lived experience. I did work with a therapist, and I stayed with her for a few years, and we sort of went through multiple relationships, multiple of my dating relationships before I met my husband. And I actually had kind of like, almost like a little mental health crisis breakdown moment. When my husband wanted to get married because he was healthier, he didn't meet those subconscious things that had led to so much passion. It felt like passion, but it was also these unhealthy behaviors that I was drawn to in other people, and it took so much work on the inside of me. He's great, but it took a lot for me to be like, okay, Liz, you got to stay here with what's healthy for you and work on. Just because I'm drawn to something that's unhealthy doesn't mean that that is what is ultimately good for me.

Karen McMahon [00:09:32]:

And I love that you're saying that and what I tell my clients, especially as they're post divorce and maybe dipping their toe in the dating pool, if it feels familiar, you're probably in the wrong neighborhood. Right? Uncomfortable. Unfamiliar is good. When familiar has led you down a path of marrying in an unhealthy way, that discomfort with all of the healthiness of your soon to be husband makes perfect sense. Right? And we resist that, and yet it's like, well, I've gone the other direction. It hasn't worked so well for me. Maybe this unfamiliar is good. Maybe that's telling me I'm on the right path.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:10:18]:

Yes, I would say it's worked out for me. Overall, there are still moments where I have that fear, almost like fear of healthy, but, yeah, it's gone well. So in prepping, for our episode, I was trying to do some research on divorce rates and how it compares in the general public versus military couples, because this podcast is so focused on helping military couples sort of overcome the challenges, the unique challenges of military life to improve their relationships. And I really struggled to find accurate data for military couples. I did find in some different articles about the general population, and I know you mentioned this, it's like 40% to 50% of first marriages end in divorce and 60% of second marriages. I didn't find the third.

Karen McMahon [00:11:17]:

It knocks on 70, if you could believe it.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:11:20]:

Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Well, based on our discussion of the subconscious draw, I can believe it. Let's see, what else did I find? It said 40% of divorces happen in the first five years of being married, 67 by ten years. The things that I found for military couples were really varied. Some of it was like a couple of decades old, so I didn't want to pull it. And some of it was not from very credible sources. I found a lot of stuff from lawyers, divorce lawyers, and I was like, I don't know, I'm going to go with your data. But what I did find in the research was that female service members in particular are at a greater risk for divorce than male service members. And enlisted females have the highest rates of divorce, and it's actually double the rate of divorce for enlisted men. And this also is seen in veterans. So after the service member gets out of the military, female veterans are also twice as likely as female non veterans to be divorced. And so this is just a big chunk of the population who are experiencing divorce. And if I go back to this idea of trauma, traumatic growth, the way that I work comes from attachment theory. And in attachment theory, we would actually consider it to be traumatic to lose somebody that I've relied on, especially if there were big betrayals that led to the divorce that that sort of shatters something on the inside of me where I have this feeling of safety and security and that my body actually can have similar symptoms as PTSD when this happens. And so the recovery of this is really hard, can be long, and is often very painful. So, again, I'm glad we're talking about this and going to the idea of coaching versus counseling. I love that you look for some generational patterns and are thinking about the subconscious pools. I think the trauma piece is probably where counselors come in, is how do I recover from the pain of the trauma part of what I went through. Can you tell us a little bit about how that's different from what you do as a coach?

Karen McMahon [00:14:08]:

Yeah, no, that's such a great question. And there are oftentimes, I'll say oftentimes when we're dealing with people who are in these traumatic situations and another one that we deal a lot with is high conflict divorce. That's a specialty of ours. So when you've been married to someone with a personality disorder where you're just constantly thinking you're insane and not understanding, trying to bring reason, where reason doesn't exist, there's that PTSD, and there's that need for psychological support, which is not what we offer. And so many of our clients will actually create a hybrid of support where they'll see their therapist one week and their coach the next week. And so what's the don't we're not mental health experts. The beautiful thing, Liz, that you do is you can explain and help them understand what's happening and why it's happening and connecting those dots psychologically, and even the healing and the way you go about the healing. For us, we start with the thoughts. I've just recently suggested to a couple of new clients we can continue to work together, but I really encourage you to speak to a mental health expert. And when we would have conversations, something would come up and I'd say, why don't you take that to your therapist next week? That's a really key part. Not my wheelhouse. So what I do is I help clients take a look at how are you thinking? So for us, we say it starts with the thought after the event. So you have a thought. Your thought is hardwired into your emotion, and then your emotion, your feeling is hardwired into your action. So if the thought is I'll use one that people entering divorce often feel, either I'm going to walk away penniless, I'm going to be homeless, I'm not going to have my kids, I'll never find love again, and I'll be alone. So those aren't realities. Those are stories. He cheated on me or she cheated on me, and so I'm never going to be able to trust someone again. You work with the pain and the wounds of being cheated on. I take a look at okay, let's look at the story. That's a story. Yeah. And so, first of all, let's look at how do you feel? What is the emotion that comes up when you are ruminating about that story? It's not fact factors. You were cheated on fact as you're going through a divorce and money might be tight, the story of I'm going to be homeless, I'm going to be penniless, I'm never going to that's a story. That's fiction. And it's actually a nightmare fiction. So as you ruminate about this nightmare, how do you feel? Typically, I'm going to feel either like a victim or I'm going to feel angry. I'm going to be in this very low emotional energy, and I'm going to have all this reaction. I'm going to want to crawl under the covers or drink a bottle of wine or binge Netflix, or scream and yell at froth at the mouth at my soon to be ex. And when we're in those low energies, we can't see possibility. It's almost like being in victim and conflict energy as being in the dungeon and the sub basement and, you know, those little casement windows. You could barely see people walking by with their feet. When you're in the penthouse, you have a 365 degree view. And so what we help our clients see is your thoughts are plummeting, you into this low energy. You don't see choice, you don't see possibility. If we can help you go up, what does going up look like? Go from anger and hurt to taking responsibility for your part and finding forgiveness, at least for yourself at first. That's a third level that's up a little bit. Finding compassion, that's up a level. Finding peace or joy. So each of these bring us up. And so when our clients get caught in the story and we can help them see that when you shift your story to a little bit more possibility, your emotions go up, your access to choice and possibility goes up, and you can be more productive and effective. And you have so many opportunities to practice that going through divorce. And once you've got it, let me tell you something, it's going to work with you raising your teenagers, changing your job, dealing with a difficult manager, anything. Once you have that skill, you can't lose it. And so that's where the reinventing yourself through this tribulation is so valuable.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:19:10]:

Yeah. So it sounds like this is one of the main ways that you work with people as a coach, is to help them recognize the story and then be able to sort of see other possibilities other than that story. Am I understanding that right?

Karen McMahon [00:19:25]:

Yeah. And we call it a reframe. Like when we can support people to practice and become really skilled at reframing, that's a game changer for them because so many people think that all the obstacles of divorce are external. To me, it's the kids, it's the court, it's the attorney, it's the ex. And it's like those are there and they're difficult. The suffering all happens between our ears. And when we can start paying attention to our narrative, we can really change the way we navigate divorce.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:20:04]:

Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Are there any other things that you really love to do with people when you are working with them in recovering from divorce?

Karen McMahon [00:20:16]:

We have a program that touches on a number of challenges that virtually everyone face, regardless of their age or what kind of a marriage or divorce they're going through. And so the first one is reactivity. Right. And so we're all going to be somewhat reactive. I was raised with a mom who I would refer to as a rageaholic when I was young, and so that was what was modeled for me. Some people are what's modeled for them is get quiet, go inside, shrink, be quiet, isolate. And so whatever our way of dealing with conflict is, is a huge thing that we work with people on and learning to create the pause, learning to notice the trigger. What happens? Does your neck get tight? Does your stomach get sour? Does your jaw clench? Like, start noticing physically what happens, and then notice we're back to the story, notice the narrative and create a pause. And when we can support people in not responding, it doesn't even cross your frontal lobe, and it's coming out your mouth. Right. That's not helpful. So learning how to curb the conflict, create a pause, and learning the difference between being reactive and being responsive is super powerful and again, can be used in any setting.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:21:50]:

Yeah, I like it, and I like how you're saying, these are skills that I can use. This is a moment of pain that I can learn skills that will then be transferable kind of across the board. And you had mentioned earlier you can use these skills even with kids. And I know this is often a major concern for people, both when they're trying to decide, should I get divorced? Should we go down this path? And once we've decided, okay, we are going to get divorced, how do we help the kids? So I know you do some work around this too. So do you mind talking a little bit about kind of this process of thinking about the kids and using the skills for the kids as you go through both deciding whether or not to divorce and through the process?

Karen McMahon [00:22:45]:

Yeah, thank you. Great question. The first part, if you're in the Should I stay or should I go? And your thought is, this is going to be so devastating to the children. I think I'll stay. If you have a marriage, and this is what I always ask clients, tell me all the ways you feel deeply loved by your partner. So if you have a marriage where your kids don't see you holding hands, chitchatting, sitting on the couch, having a conversation, disagreeing in a healthy way, if they see something that just is deeply dysfunctional on a regular basis, then you are pouring the seeds for a generational chain. This is their experience of intimate love. It is being seeded unconsciously in them, and they're going to grow up, go out, and they're going to find a similar type of intimate love as what they experienced. And so that's usually incredibly valuable for people in realizing, you mean if I have my child under my roof, two different roofs, well, then you can choose to be uber healthy, and maybe the other parent will be too, when you're divorced. But even one parent who's really healthy and engages in healthy, intimate love with your child, you're teaching them something much more valuable. And so for those who fear hurting the child, you really want to take a step back and say, what is the messaging that my child is receiving with Mommy and Daddy married under this roof? And is that what I want for him or her. And if not, if that's what's holding you back, that'll help you make that decision move forward. Let's say you've made the decision, and now you're looking you're looking at your thoughts. You're looking at, how present am I? You're looking at, do I focus on the problem, or do I focus on the solution? Am I reactive? What am I learning about myself and the beauty of being able to pour into our children everything we're learning? At the youngest of ages, I mean, my children were literally four and six when I sat them down to say I was leaving. It was a couple of years later, I think they were nine and eleven or ten, eight and ten when we moved into my own home. Everything every upset with their dad, every upset with my co parent was an opportunity for me to bite my tongue, not talk about him, not put him down, not even make it about him, but to help the kids figure out how to handle situations. So children will always play one parent against the other. And I had so many opportunities because I had such a high conflict co parenting, in my case, my kids got very upset with their other parent as well. And I could say, how did it feel? And here's the key to what I'm about to say. I encourage you to ask more than you tell with your children. They'll learn more, you'll learn more, and you will be growing their sense of self, and they'll be slowing it down to understand, start understanding why they say and do the things they do. And so I would ask my children, like, my daughter wanted to say something to her dad, and what do you want to say, and why are you afraid to say it? And what if that does happen? And what's the value of voicing your concern, regardless of whether or not me or Daddy abide? Like, let's talk about the value of a young girl having her voice always. And with my son, he was an angry young man. It was a very difficult divorce, and he used to be like a duck with everything rolling off his back. And he went through, like, many years, five, six years of just really being a walking raw nerve. And with him, what are you feeling, and what do you need? And we created this whole, you can ask for a timeout anytime you want, even if I'm in the middle of reprimanding you, and you can walk out of the house, and you can take your time, and then we'll come back. And that was something where he began to understand his triggers, his tendencies, and he learned the value of taking a time out. At first, he thought he had this tool. He's like, Mom, I need a time out. I'd be like, okay, we're going to come back. But we would come back and we'd both be better and we'd both be able to engage. And so you can raise such healthy children, such conscious children, and you can do it so beautifully. And when you ask more than you tell, because parents tend to tell, you learn so much about your child and they learn so much about themselves. And it's just something I have seen families emerge so much healthier in terms of a parent and their children because of that kind of paying it forward, pouring it into your children.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:28:15]:

Yeah. As you were talking, I was thinking about how important it is to have that support system while you are going through a divorce. Because if I was going through a divorce, in order for me, I have to learn the skills first. I have to go first if I want to help my kids through the divorce, their own painful feelings about what's happening, and continue to develop a healthier relationship with their feelings, but also to not be reactive and not just to model our conflict. If I want to help them learn how to have positive, healthy relationships, I have to go first. I have to learn how to do it and learn it enough that I can then help them learn it, which is really very powerful. And I think it goes right back to your statement. You can actually change a generational pattern that way just because you learned something from your parents and they learned it from their parents. If you can learn to do something different, your kids can learn to do it different.

Karen McMahon [00:29:24]:

And my children are now 24 and 26. And what's so incredible is as they enter relationship, they'll come back to me and talk about where they see mom and dad in themselves and their partners. I've had one of my children raise the issue of codependence and that they're noticing their own codependent behaviors and what can I do about that? My son came to me once and said, because I'm so supportive and encouraging, he said, you're always telling me how good I am. Could you critique me? Because I want to be a better man, I want to be a better version of myself. And to me I was like, well, if that isn't like the greatest gift in the world, that he would come to me with that question and that he would be introspective enough in his mid twenty s at the time he was 23, 24, to say, this is something that's important to me. And we went through a severely high conflict divorce and their dad is a difficult guy to be in relationship with. And they've emerged certainly with wounds. I don't want to candy code it. They need their therapy, they've got their trauma to work through. But there's also their brilliance and the beauty that I see that just delights me.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:30:58]:

And I'm just thinking, that's so different than most 23 year olds I know to be self reflective and insightful and intentional about who I want to be and where I want to go. I'm also thinking about the fact that he could come to you with that just demonstrates how much safety he has in relationship to you.

Karen McMahon [00:31:23]:

And if I could just comment on the safety. I was just talking to a client the other day. Her children are older and grown. Whether your child is four or 14 or 40, you do not ever tell them about the divorce, about the problems with the other parent. When you do that, you become an unsafe person for them to come to when they're having problems. And if you always see where they can be better and you critique a lot, you become an unsafe parent. And when you can, the way I love looking at it is we always have a pot of flowers and a pot of weeds in front of us, and we always choose which one we're going to pour our miracle grow into. And your children, you want to always pour into the beauty that you see. And there's a good way of critiquing, which is you pour into the beauty. You comment on the issue that needs to be addressed, and then you wrap it in. You're great and amazing and I love you and I know you can do this, and I'm here for you or whatever. The more you criticize or the more you criticize, the ex, the less safe you are. And for me, and we all have a different view, but if I failed at everything else, but I have a great relationship with my kids and they trust me and they can come to me no matter how disastrous what they're facing is, then I've done a fabulous job.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:33:00]:

Yes, I would agree. I feel like you have given us so much, like so many tips and tools throughout this whole discussion, even like, recommendations, the programs that you run. I'm wondering if you have any sort of final takeaways for military couples who are either facing the decision if we should divorce or who have decided we are going to divorce and how they can be thoughtful and intentional about the recovery process.

Karen McMahon [00:33:31]:

I'm a big fan of Snippet sayings that stick with you. And so one of my favorites is every upset is a set up for personal work. And if you think about it, if you're in a marriage that's struggling, you have oodles of opportunity to be upset. And if every time you're upset, instead of looking at him or her across the room, you slow it down and look in like, why am I triggered? What is my story? What is my reaction? You end up using the pain and the struggle to grow yourself even while you're in in fact, the best place to grow is while you're still in it with that other person, because there's a lot of upsets. So every upset is a set up. Keep the. Focus on yourself and you will grow through whatever your tribulation is.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:34:26]:

Yeah, I love that. So I'm thinking some people listening to this episode are probably going to want to contact you in some way. Can you share how they could get in touch with you or sort of like the services that you provide in case they want to work with you?

Karen McMahon [00:34:42]:

Thank you so much. So first we have a podcast that has a series on virtually everything, and I plan on doing a series on military divorce in the next year or so, but we don't have that yet. But high conflict, high net life after divorce, divorce roadmap with all the logistics and so Journey Beyond Divorce is the podcast. Journey Beyond Divorce is also the website, and on the homepage of our website, we invite you into a free Rapid Relief Call. We've got a new program, Get Off the Fence and leave your Difficult marriage. We've got another accelerated divorce program that talks about some of the twelve steps and so you'll find all of that at Journey Beyond Divorce. So click join our mailing list and reach out. And the Rapid Relief Call is a private session with a coach to see how we can help you. And that's free. It's our gift, so that's a great one to grab.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:35:39]:

Okay, great. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast, Liz.

Karen McMahon [00:35:44]:

Thanks so much for what you do and for inviting me on to speak to your listeners.

Elizabeth Polinsky [00:35:58]:

I hope you enjoyed today's episode. If so, please take a second to go. Rate, review and subscribe so you get all of our future episodes. Make sure to check out the show notes to sign up for our free ten week relationship email course. This email course is really designed for people who are maybe having trouble with communication or connection in their relationship and helping them develop some quick wins right away to start improving it. While I am a therapist, this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not considered therapy and it should also not be a replacement for therapy. If you think you need a professional of any kind, you should definitely go find one. Until next time.

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About the Podcast Host

Elizabeth Polinsky is a marriage and couple therapist specializing in working with military members, veterans, and their families. Liz has offices in Virginia Beach, Virginia, and Fallon, Nevada, and also provides online counseling services throughout Virginia, Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina, Arkansas, and Nevada. ​

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